Curse

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Mord,

Pleaseeeeeeeeeee low req vanity skins are NO different than vanity armor and titles. Yet you keep trying to act like they are.

Anet could make this easier on your upgrades you seem to think should be cheap ... by putting a trader in for them and letting supply and demand control the price. However your argument that you should be able to get 30 pommels etc for next to nothing when a 29 does same job is rather hard to choke down. The 1hp is vanity.

From Dictionary.com

profiteering:

One who makes excessive profits on goods in short supply.

intr.v. prof·it·eered, prof·it·eer·ing, prof·it·eers

To make excessive profits on goods in short supply.

In real life it's a crime, in Guild Wars virtual economy it's perhaps something that the developers would like to reduce as well. I'm sorry if you'll no longer be able to pay for 1000 keys off selling one item you got from a chest.

Abnaxus · Oct 03, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Bit of advice ... you want staffs? Make a warrior and run the chests for the max title you will have 70% of your worthwhile chest drops turn out to be staffs.

That's fun.

I can open 1000 chests, and not have the staff, whereas someone in the world will find it with just 1 key.

You cannot tell someone who wants to buy a car to play the lottery, win and buy it. Maybe you could tell him to check different models, decide, find the best price on market, negotiate the discount and so on.

And anyway, you don't accept my offer because you think that your staff is unique, and if I want it I must accept your conditions.
With a more competitive market, I'll be able to look around, negotiate, find the best deal, buy all components from different sellers for the best price.

It's liberism against monopoly and incumbent position.

leprekan · Oct 03, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious

From Dictionary.com

profiteering:

One who makes excessive profits on goods in short supply.

intr.v. prof·it·eered, prof·it·eer·ing, prof·it·eers

To make excessive profits on goods in short supply.

In real life it's a crime, in Guild Wars virtual economy it's perhaps something that the developers would like to reduce as well. I'm sorry if you'll no longer be able to pay for 1000 keys off selling one item you got from a chest.

Sweet!

I have been called an Elitist and now I am profiteering!

This update would only make ME more money. It will KILL the middle class players in GW yet somehow you seem to think I am after or I am trying to keep personal wealth. I invite you people that like posting here more than playing the game to log on and take a look at what is being bought in trade towns. Several people are actively spamming for junk skin 15>50 and low req junk mod rare skin weapons. This update would/will be exploited to death. The casual gamer will be the one that pays the price long term.

Uh a crime? So rare items in the real world are only rare because of profiteering?

Mordakai · Oct 03, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Mord,

Pleaseeeeeeeeeee low req vanity skins are NO different than vanity armor and titles. Yet you keep trying to act like they are.

Anet could make this easier on your upgrades you seem to think should be cheap ... by putting a trader in for them and letting supply and demand control the price. However your argument that you should be able to get 30 pommels etc for next to nothing when a 29 does same job is rather hard to choke down. The 1hp is vanity.

Is +1 Death Mod vanity?

Is +1 Smiting vanity?

How much are those mods worth (I have no idea, myself, I've never seen one).

You keep using the +30 HP mod like it's the only one. I only used it as an example because it disproves your basic point: that somehow +1 HP = FoW armor.

To put it another way: If FoW armor offered bonuses not available in other armors, do you think people would feel the same about them? I would bet not.

Anet made all armors "equal" for a reason (with the exception of Collector's). Now, they are expanding it to Mods. 'Bout time.

(BTW, I hope they do have a NPC Mod Trader. I don't want to have to deal with human traders to get my perfect mods...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

This update would/will be exploited to death. The casual gamer will be the one that pays the price long term.

How? Most casual players aren't banking on selling perfect weapons to make their fortunes, trust me. (At least, I'm not). I think once you start spending most of your time farming weapons, you cease to be a "casual player." But, again, that's just my opinion.

Tommy · Oct 03, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

how much money you got

? imao anyone with less than 40 million isn't an elitist:L 1 to 10 million= average players. 10 to 20 million=lower middle class. 20 to 30 million=middle class 40+=elitist

I am not an elitist myself since i am only a lower-middle class

dammit i have to worry now

leprekan · Oct 03, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

how much money you got

? imao anyone with less than 40 million isn't an elitist:L 1 to 10 million= average players. 10 to 20 million=lower middle class. 20 to 30 million=middle class 40+=elitist

I am not an elitist myself since i am only a lower-middle class

dammit i have to worry now

I am certain that the "average" players on this thread would probably dispute this amount since they are screaming for cheap items

Mord,

All those +1s are available on greens. Smite is like 10k if you can even find someone to buy it. And yes those collector weapons and greens keep the playing field level for the casual gamer. You want vanity but don't want to work for it.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Uh a crime? So rare items in the real world are only rare because of profiteering?

I'm just making a valid point here, you state that this will benefit you and hurt others in the long run. Well, I will have to agree to disagree with your point of view and move on. I'm not going to get into some pointless internet arguement here.

Diamonds are rare, because of the nature of their creation. You argue that something that is almost the same and not as rare is just as valid, would you want your wife wearing a ring with a chunk of carbon on it, because it's almost the same thing just not as rare?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

how much money you got

? imao anyone with less than 40 million isn't an elitist:L 1 to 10 million= average players. 10 to 20 million=lower middle class. 20 to 30 million=middle class 40+=elitist

I am not an elitist myself since i am only a lower-middle class

dammit i have to worry now

Elitist is an attitude, not an amount of virtual money you have on your video game.

1 to 10 million for your average player eh? That's an interesting figure, I myself have 10k in storage, I spent 40k on cap signets this last weekend, and when I get 10-40k in storage I feel comfortable and don't see the need to aquire more wealth at that point unless I'm after something specific. I guess in your opinion I'm a newbie then? 3000 hours and still a newbie, because I don't care about having 1mil+ gold... Who knew?

Ghull Ka · Oct 03, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Mord,

Pleaseeeeeeeeeee low req vanity skins are NO different than vanity armor and titles. Yet you keep trying to act like they are.

They are. One removes gold from the game and was created by ANet to do so. One shifts gold from one person to another person and inflates the resale value of similar items artificially.

They're very different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

However your argument that you should be able to get 30 pommels etc for next to nothing when a 29 does same job is rather hard to choke down. The 1hp is vanity.

No, the 1hp is a very real advantage. 1hp worth of an advantage is still a very very very very small advantage, but it's still a real, quantifiable advantage -- a very expensive advantage which has had its price tag artificially inflated by the player-to-player "economy".

Phoenix Ex · Oct 03, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Yet gold sinks are only needed to control inflation.

If the inflating items are made so common that it totally drops in price, then the gold sinks don't need to exist anymore.

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 03, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

And still no one has explained why the new salvaging system that makes weapon building more flexible is bad, other than the wild theory that the economy will bomb out.

Let's see, a new system that will benefit everyone versus a handful of people who are worried that they'll lose their future monopoly profits. Hmmm tough choice....

Mordakai · Oct 03, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Mord,

All those +1s are available on greens. Smite is like 10k if you can even find someone to buy it. And yes those collector weapons and greens keep the playing field level for the casual gamer. You want vanity but don't want to work for it.

Sigh. Mods are NOT vanity, no matter how many times you say it.

Anyway, it's not just what I want, it's Anets vision of the game.

Skill > Grind. Remember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Yet gold sinks are only needed to control inflation.

If the inflating items are made so common that it totally drops in price, then the gold sinks don't need to exist anymore.

"Gold sinks" aren't really needed at all, because most everyone agrees, you don't need lots of gold to play Guild Wars (although it will help to get perfect Mods and Runes).

You "want" gold to buy 15k armor (vanity), FoW armor (vanity), and overpriced mods (NOT vanity) and skins (vanity).

Which of these things is not like the other?

Again, for those new to the argument, I don't want to see cheap Crystallines! Keep 'em at a million for the playboy/girl collectors out there.

I just want to see every mod available at a reasonable price, preferably through an NPC Mod Trader.

But, in the end, it doesn't really matter what I want, all that matters is what Anet does....

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 03, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Yet gold sinks are only needed to control inflation.

If the inflating items are made so common that it totally drops in price, then the gold sinks don't need to exist anymore.

Do you even know what gold sinks are? Gold sinks take gold out of the player economy. Selling one high priced item to another person is NOT a gold sink. The gold is STILL in the economy.

FOW armor, salvage kits, runes, etc etc, anything you buy from an NPC merchant IS a gold sink.

Player to player sold items that drop in price dont affect anything more than if the prices remain ridiculously high. Fact is, that the gold still is in circulation in the player economy either way.

Now stop ranting about stuff that you dont know about.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Sigh. Mods are NOT vanity, no matter how many times you say it.

Anyway, it's not just what I want, it's Anets vision of the game.

Skill > Grind. Remember?

It's true, mods aren't vanity. "I'm using a hale zodiac staff of fortitude"

it doesn't call any of the items stats, that could be a 9-16 staff with a +10 hale and +15 fortitude. unless you open trade and show someone the weapon, the difference between +30 and +29 isn't much, even if you call your hp if you have a major vigor and a 29 staff wrap, you're still only 10 points under someone with superior vigor and a +30 wrap

Phoenix Ex · Oct 03, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

if ANet really wants to make their game fits to their vision, they need to stop tempting all the hardcore players by adding gold sinks after gold sinks.

If skill > grind, fow armor should be availible cheaply, even if its not needed at all, just to give more options to players.

Minipet should be cheap and be able to be chosen so that players can play with what they find is a "cool" pet without having to grind for it(and minipet is player controlled economy as well, how come no one is complaining about them, when they are the exact same as weapon skins).

If they keep all the gold sinks people will just think "well, at this outrageous price it must mean that the current rare item pricing is just about right".

Phoenix Ex · Oct 03, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Do you even know what gold sinks are? Gold sinks take gold out of the player economy. Selling one high priced item to another person is NOT a gold sink. The gold is STILL in the economy.

FOW armor, salvage kits, runes, etc etc, anything you buy from an NPC merchant IS a gold sink.

Player to player sold items that drop in price dont affect anything more than if the prices remain ridiculously high. Fact is, that the gold still is in circulation in the player economy either way.

Now stop ranting about stuff that you dont know about.

Exactly my point, they should remove the fow armor, salvage kits, runes, etc etc. gold sinks since they are going to make rare weapon skins cheap anyways, theres no need to have those gold sinks there to stop the inflation.

Mordakai · Oct 03, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

if ANet really wants to make their game fits to their vision, they need to stop tempting all the hardcore players by adding gold sinks after gold sinks.

If skill > grind, fow armor should be availible cheaply, even if its not needed at all, just to give more options to players.

Minipet should be cheap and be able to be chosen so that players can play with what they find is a "cool" pet without having to grind for it(and minipet is player controlled economy as well, how come no one is complaining about them, when they are the exact same as weapon skins).

If they keep all the gold sinks people will just think "well, at this outrageous price it must mean that the current rare item pricing is just about right".

???

How did you come up with that conclusion?

How does FoW armor or minipets effect Game Balance at all?

You think 75,000 gold for 15k armor is outrageous? How about 1 million gold for a perfect crystalline?

(fixed stupid math mistake)

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Exactly my point, they should remove the fow armor, salvage kits, runes, etc etc. gold sinks since they are going to make rare weapon skins cheap anyways, theres no need to have those gold sinks there to stop the inflation.

FOW armor doesn't add to your game skill, it just shows you took the time to PVE and farm and get the gear you want to obtain the look you're after.

I can take someone in 1v1 who has FOW, when I've got 1.5k armor and collectors gear, or with a PVP only character. Why? A number of reasons (mostly because 1v1 isn't what the game is about, Guild Wars is a fancy version of paper rock scissors, there is a counter to every build and it's team work and skill that determine wins in PVP.

A guild with all PVP only characters could slaughter a guild in FOW armor and all fancy high end weapons, if they are better players. Money sinks are there for people who want to have something to grind for, I don't think that your argument to remove FOW etc is valid.

Phoenix Ex · Oct 03, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

and HOW does weapon skins affect game balance at all?? People don't NEED to have them, they have collector's and greens.

Mordakai · Oct 03, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

and HOW does weapon skins affect game balance at all?? People don't NEED to have them, they have collector's and greens.

Hey, here's a thought, read my posts!

I don't care about skins. I want Inscriptions for cheap mods.

(and, no, not all mods are available on Collector's or Greens - not that I count Greens anyway, cause they're not "cheap").

"I just want to see every mod available at a reasonable price, preferably through an NPC Mod Trader." - Mordakai

leprekan · Oct 03, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Hey, here's a thought, read my posts!

I don't care about skins. I want Inscriptions for cheap mods.

(and, no, not all mods are available on Collector's or Greens - not that I count Greens anyway, cause they're not "cheap").

"I just want to see every mod available at a reasonable price, preferably through an NPC Mod Trader." - Mordakai

Mord,

Your argument is flawed at best (being kind)

1% on ANY mod is not enough of an advantage to merit the wrecking of the economy. Any mod 1% less than PERFECT is DIRT CHEAP ALREADY. You keep arguing the NEED for that extra 1% when it is only vanity. The VERY RARE times anyone is down to 1hp and lives without a monk saving his/her butt is reaching to the extent of making this laughable.